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Films:
Previously A Black Sheep, The Porsche 912 Has Its Revenge
OMG!!! Now that’s a full-fledged hipster… Beard, cap, vintage car… You just cannot get any more hipster than that!!
Seriously, if the car had kept its original engine, then I’d say it’s perfect. For now, it’s rather an outlaw, a 912 with a VW heart. As a long time 912 fan, this is an essential point to me, I don’t care if it runs fast, but I want it to behave like a 912, not a bug on steroids. But, really nice work, the body itself is definitely outlaw, but it goes well with the engine in fact. So, the car is coherent, even if it’s not an example of a 912 restoration.
Hi all,
There is a fantastic vidéo and 912 fan approach !
I am searching my first Porsche and I would really like to meet Julien to have advice and discuss the opportunity to restaure à 912. Could I have the chance to connect with him thanks to the site ?
Thanks In advance for your help.
Regis
Hi Regis,
We can meet whenever you want in Paris. Just send me a email : julien@912club.fr :’)
Bravo Julien ! bien joué (well done) …
I also own a ’69 912, bought in the US, which looks quite like a sister of yours ! I used to own a ’67 SWB 912 before this one, but the 69 is far sportier, with larger rims, bilstein, etc …
I agree with you about the former black sheep reputation and must admit that I didn’t give a glance at 912s when I owned my Carrera 3.0, 15 years ago… but I was blind, and now I see 😉 … the 912 is a true classic, and is far more agile than its big sister !
I’ve never found the opportunity to come to one of your 912 rendez-vous, but I promise I will !
congratulations, once again … and Thanks to Petrolicious !
Olivier
1st Julian – parfait – keep on going
2nd – agree with kevin, that´s why we would all have the polo 4cyl engine . .thanks to dan it is available and a nice engine to swap with, if there woudl not be the high pricing tag on it.
3rd
concerning the road taxes . .
i can only speak for germany and at this time the law was actually according to the size of the engine.
per 100 cm3 had to be paid per year 14,40 deutsch marks if you had a normal car.
Kraftfahrzeugsteuergesetzt (KraftStg 1961) § 11
the law was done in 49 and redone in 61 and in the further years to come . .
no it is done according to the emisson of the cars, but still 100cm3:
from 5,11 euro euro 6 norm up to 37,58 euro for old dieselcars . .
in 1965 there was a new law for the duty of gettting an insurance of your car due to the accidents and else . . thats it for germany.
In racing, for example the group 2, according to FISA (now FIA), there had been the cm3 classes but with weight
Hubraum = cm3
Hubraum bis 500 cm³ 495 kg
Hubraum bis 600 cm³ 535 kg
Hubraum bis 700 cm³ 570 kg
Hubraum bis 850 cm³ 615 kg
Hubraum bis 1000 cm³ 655 kg
Hubraum bis 1150 cm³ 690 kg
Hubraum bis 1300 cm³ 720 kg
Hubraum bis 1600 cm³ 775 kg
Hubraum bis 2000 cm³ 845 kg
Hubraum bis 2500 cm³ 920 kg
Hubraum bis 3000 cm³ 990 kg
Hubraum bis 3500 cm³ 1050 kg
Hubraum bis 4000 cm³ 1115 kg
Hubraum bis 4500 cm³ 1175 kg
Hubraum bis 5000 cm³ 1225 kg
Hubraum bis 5500 cm³ 1280 kg
Hubraum bis 6000 cm³ 1330 kg
Hubraum bis 6500 cm³ 1365 kg
Hubraum bis 7000 cm³ 1405 kg
Hubraum bis 7500 cm³ 1425 kg
Hubraum bis 8000 cm³ 1445 kg
Hubraum über 8000 cm³ 1530 kg
59 750 pre unit triton
63 650 gray silver bikinitub triumph thunderbird
70 650 astralred silver triumph bonneville
65 912 slate gray “erwin”
73 914 ravennagreen “ferdl”
Tremendous piece, on what looks like a glorious car. Love that flat four thrum! A friend purchased a three-gauge 912 that someone had slathered in Porsche decals, a red velour interior, and a VW engine. It was Polo Red too. With a 2.2L available for trade of parts, we took the most viable option and made a 912/6. Regrettable perhaps now, but easily rectified. At least she was saved from the red velour…
I was reading TJ Martin’s comments and it compelled me to comment, and respectfully disagree, at least in part.
First, I think it’s important to recognize that many corporate decisions are made on multiple data points, not one single data point. With this in mind, I think TJ’s reference of taxation as a material issue for the 2L 911 is appropriate, and correct, but it’s not the entire story. It, along with the massive price difference from the 356 to the 911 did depress sales and put the company in a less than ideal financial condition. Those externalities certainly contribute to the birth of the 912, however, the story has more to it than just that.
Contemplation of the 911, originally the 901 before the trademark suit, began in 1958. The original design actually contemplated many motor options, one of which was the Fuhrman engine, 2L “4 cam” used in the 356. It was deemed inappropriate due to the cost of manufacture and the support issues likely at that scale. In the early 1960’s Porsche embarked on development of the 6 cylinder dual overhead cam engine. That development did not complete in time for the early road tests, which were then conducted by installing the 95 horsepower power plant of the existing 356. This is referenced in the Porsche archives if you are interested. So, by definition the 4 cylinder “901”, or rather 902, was an early consideration.
At the same time as these early road tests, Porsche also explored two viable 4 cylinder options for production, considering two parallel lines, the 901 (now 911), and 902 (now 912). They considered a drastically upgraded 616 motor, building from the existing 356SC, and they considered a native and new 4 cylinder dual overhead cam variant, building on the early work on the 6 cylinder development. Both options ran in to limitations, the former in terms of power and scalability, the latter in terms of development and production costs. Paul Hensler, later a senior engineering leader of the company, led the 4 cylinder dual overhead cam effort, which was ultimately cancelled by Hans Mezger due to cost issues. This is well documented if you read about Dean Polopolus’s efforts and kit to build a modern 4 cylinder dual overhead cam motor for application in 356s and now 912s.
One additional externality was the sale of Porsche industrial motors, which while strong in the late 50’s, dropped in volume in the early 1960’s, and were highly similar in design to the 616 motor. This left capacity and available stock as a key input, which coupled with slower sales due to price, and regulations, made for the perfect storm. Ultimately Porsche decided to take the SC power plant, detune it to 90 horsepower down from 95, and launch the 912. Sales were brisk and sustained, especially overseas, due to less necessity for top level speed and power, notably in the key export market of the United States given speed limits.
I am not sure I see the detune as a quality issue to TJ’s comments – most of the detune was in compression from what I have read – of course I do agree it placed technical limitations on the motor which remain today.
So I think the ‘myth’ is less about one perspective or another, and more about a complex set of variables Porsche considered in the face of slower sales on a very capital intensive product launch, and their contemplated and ultimate choices to shift that condition.
By whatever means, I think it’s a joy to drive, and I love the platform. Of course I love the 911 as well, and value them for what they each represent. Great discourse on this topic, and like always, awesome video, one of my favorite.
Alright …. lets get the historical record straight when it come to the 912
Porsche … Did Not … build the 912 out of any altruistic concern for their customers inability to afford the 911
Porsche built the 912 because the road taxes in Germany and most of Europe back then were suddenly raised significantly on cars 2 liters and over … with the result for Porsche being a drastic reduction in 911 sales both at home and thru out the continent
So .. in order to save money on development and yet still maintaining sales Porsche … as an afterthought [ afterbirth ? ] dragged the remains of the 356 1600 cc motor out of the basement …. did barely nothing to bring it up to date .. and in fact built it more cheaply and of significantly lower quality than it ever was in the 356 [ and it was fragile even back then ] … stuffed it into the tail of the 911 … called it a 912 .. and called it a day
That … is the real story behind the 912 … and why the original 356 based motors in the 912 are such a pile of dreck and stretched beyond their capacity
Amazing aint it ? As ‘ romantic ‘as the revisionist history seems to be …. the genuine and accurate history is so much more interesting …. and in the long run should you chose to own one .. informative as well … wink wink !
You are not wrong. The view above is a complete fabrication to gain attention. The 356 line never had a ‘basement’ to start! As a 356 and 911 driver – both sold from the oldest franchise outside of Germany – the story you quote in this excellent work is true. Do not waste your time in doing any investigations… Neko.
Hello.Just saw the video and saw myself into your sensitivity towards the 912.I feel the 912 just it hits the cords of a petrolhead with minimum technical conscience rather than perceived truths via economic expense.My compliments for your presentation and for the commercial idea…and for your car.Where exactly are you located and what is the name of the shop?Having relatives between Versailles and Paris I’d surely come,if the opportunity comes,and distract you from your work.
In all honesty, I though of the 912 as a black sheep in my younger days. “What, a 911 with only 4 cylinders?!”. However, as I’ve grown slightly older and have come to realize that a car’s worth isn’t measured in horsepower or the amount of cylinders, the 912 seem like a very interesting car. The modifications done to this one are excellent and the video itself is, as always, excellent.
Dear HIP Deluxe. Please see photograph below of a three-gauge Polo Red 912. It is in the same jurisdiction as the photograph you posted, but perhaps 25 years ago. If not for the useless passenger side mirror, I would have thought they were perhaps different cars. But quite possibly we’ve posted photographs of the same car… Is yours three-gauge? If so, is your body number under just under 700? Excuse me please, but that would be one neat internet coincidence! Neko.
Was having difficulties trying to view earlier today, but now all is good.
My favorite 912 is 1969, only year of LWB (Long Wheel Base) early body with flairs like Julien’s modified ’67.
The handling is definitely more balanced in an early 912 compared to an early 911. What is missing though is the wonderful 911 6-cylinder torque.
I keeps telling y’all . The 912 handles better than an equivalent 911 … stuff a hopped up Type 2 motor in its tail and it’ll outrun a 911 as well …. spend the big bucks and put one of those absolutely brilliant POLO Porsche flat fours in its rump [ as Alois Ruf has with his personal 912 ] and a lot of 911 Turbo’s will be struggling to keep up .
So grab em before they’re too hot ! A tweak here … a mod or two there and you’ve got yourself a genuine 911 killer guaranteed to bring tears to many a 911 owners eyes
Best buy in a 912 ? The 912E ! Hands down . Second best being any other 912 where the foundation is good but the motor is either shot or missing … cause you really do not want the 356 motor found in all 912’s other than the E . It is … fragile … to say the least .
are you referring to a type 4 motor? because those were heavy and underpowered. And by the way, the early 912’s had more power than the 912e. The only thing the E model had that would be better is the galvanized body, and Im not even sure all of them were. The 1600 356 engine is a very stout engine, just extremely expensive to rebuild.
Nate – Nooooooo … a Type 2 my uninformed site mate is the Type 2 VW motor that many a 912 owner has had the sense to replace that fragile unloved pos remains of a 356 motor with . And on what planet was that asthmatic 912 version of the 356 engine ever more powerful than the 912E’s ? Not here in the US . Certainly not in Germany , Austria or CH either .
No good sir … thou needest to get thy Porsche facts a wee bit straightened out and well removed from the world of Myth & Hyperbole . Because EVERY Porschephile worth his or her salt knows for a fact that the 356 1600 was a fragile fickle pain in the ___ of a left over motor from the past that leaves absolutely no leeway for modifying as its already on the brittle edge of its capacity when used in the heavier [ than a 356 ] 912
And err … one more thing …. Everything about the 912E is better than the previous 912’s . In case you haven’t heard or been clued into this little reality ; ” The best Porsche you can buy is ( always ) the newest one you can afford ”
But if you must …. continue to believe the myths … while those of us in Reality Land blow right past you leaving you either in the dust or at the mechanics garage … again
Very stout indeed . Ha ! I’ll be laughing over that one for at least another hour or two …
Sorry TJ, but there is no such thing as a type 2 motor, there are type 1 and type 4. Upright cooling vs the heavier pancake motor. If by type 2 you mean a bus motor, they are referred to as type 1 engines and are the same basic layout as the 356 engine (a motor that is capably of moving the much heavier bus). Also the earlier, lighter 356 1600 motor made over 100hp compared to the heavily emission compliant type 4 motor in the 912e which made only 90. It doesn’t sound like you understand the construction of these motors seeing as you can easily buy a big bore set of cylinders. Furthermore it doesn’t sound like you own or have ever owned one of these cars so I suggest you stop spreading misinformation. As far as the 912 vs the 912e you may have been correct in a sense that if you can’t afford the earlier/better 912, then a 912e is better than nothing.
Sorry Nate, I should have been more specific ^^
It was off-course a answer to [b]TJ Martin[/b] about this sentence : [quote]And on what planet was that asthmatic 912 version of the 356 engine ever more powerful than the 912E’s ? Not here in the US . Certainly not in Germany , Austria or CH either.[/quote]
I just love the old skool rebuilds and shops and most of the the old skool craftsmanship!
Julien, I think you’ve done an amazing job on the rebuild of the 912, and I too am jealous of those beautiful country roads with the single lane twisties.
I think your doing Porsche a great service bringing these 912’s back to life.
I too have a ’87 911 that is waiting to be restored, and seeing you and your shop and you having fun in yours has sparked the motivation back into me
Thank you for that Julien.
And thank you Petrolicious for the amazing video
This is exactly what the spirit of these cars is about. Well done Jullen with your 912. I saw the thread on the Registryor or DDK I not sure which, so its really cool to see the car in flesh being driven and hearing more about your story.
I can relate to what you say in the film as I have just bought a 1969 912 after my sister died a unexpectedly a few months ago. It just give you a diferent percepetive on life.I spend too much time worrying and not enough time doing.
I’m really fortunate to be able to buy such a car and can’t wait to get it on the road and enjoy it. I’m planning on taking the car over to France next summer so who knows I might get to race you off the lights or share a beer or two.
All the best
Tim (Cambridge, England)
Fabulous video, great footage of those country roads, and love the story. I am a Porsche-file, and a 912 fan, with two in build mode at present, one fairly original, or “As It Was”, and one fairly renegade, or “As It Could Have Been”, this piece just hit the mark. Thanks for your passion.
